Curse

Cottage Pie · Apr 28, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

I'd happily put that on my sword...Still probably more useful mods

at least sundering isn't completely, utterly worthless anymore.

Evilsod · Apr 28, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Aslong as all of my customised green items remain at 10/10, Sundering is still as useless as it ever was. I really do like the look of my req 8 Chaos Axe with the shitty 10/10 Sundering on it too, i think that thing just dropped a 0 off the end of its value.

Chris1986 · Apr 28, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Definitely not a worthless mod anymore, however as far as my primary mods for my Warrior, I'd still choose Furious over Sundering. (Come on ANet, I want 20% Furious

)

As far as my Ranger, I wouldn't mind slapping a 20/20 on one of my bows.

Cottage Pie · Apr 28, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris1986

Definitely not a worthless mod anymore, however as far as my primary mods for my Warrior, I'd still choose Furious over Sundering. (Come on ANet, I want 20% Furious

)

As far as my Ranger, I wouldn't mind slapping a 20/20 on one of my bows.

20% furious? *drools*

20/20 is gonna be great for a spike...I always used vamp when spiking, that might change if I ever rspike again lol.

Chris1986 · Apr 28, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cottage Pie

20% furious? *drools*

20/20 is gonna be great for a spike...I always used vamp when spiking, that might change if I ever rspike again lol.

As if RSpike wasn't powerful enough

lol

Seriously though, I hope ANet takes a look at Furious and gives it atleast somewhat of a facelift. I'd even be happy with 15%.

makosi · Apr 28, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

I get the feeling Anet don't like monks. The warriors just got a boost in dmg from anet and now they can penetrate armour twice as much, twice as often. Furthermore Contemplation Of Purity was given a nasty recharge time.

Warrior

Mighty Blow: increased damage to 6..35.
Staggering Blow: increased Weakness duration to 5..20 seconds.
Axe Twist: decreased adrenaline cost to 7.
Skull Crack: increased attack speed to .5 seconds; decreased Dazed duration to 10 seconds
Savage Slash: increased Energy cost to 10; increased recharge time to 20; decreased attack speed to .5
Flourish: this skill now recharges Pet Attack skills.

Monk

Signet of Judgment: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Peace and Harmony: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Contemplation of Purity: increased recharge time to 10 seconds.
Unyielding Aura: now kills Enchanted characters if the caster maintaining this Enchantment dies.
Draw Conditions: fixed a bug that caused this spell to reset the durations of all the transferred Conditions.

Chris1986 · Apr 28, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I get the feeling Anet don't like monks. The warriors just got a boost in dmg from anet and now they can penetrate armour twice as much, twice as often. Furthermore Contemplation Of Purity was given a nasty recharge time.

Warrior

Mighty Blow: increased damage to 6..35.
Staggering Blow: increased Weakness duration to 5..20 seconds.
Axe Twist: decreased adrenaline cost to 7.
Skull Crack: increased attack speed to .5 seconds; decreased Dazed duration to 10 seconds
Savage Slash: increased Energy cost to 10; increased recharge time to 20; decreased attack speed to .5
Flourish: this skill now recharges Pet Attack skills.

Monk

Signet of Judgment: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Peace and Harmony: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Contemplation of Purity: increased recharge time to 10 seconds.
Unyielding Aura: now kills Enchanted characters if the caster maintaining this Enchantment dies.
Draw Conditions: fixed a bug that caused this spell to reset the durations of all the transferred Conditions.

The 20/20 is for Rangers too, remember

Also, If Anet didn't like Monks, 55'ing would've been a thing of the past loonng ago.

Lynnrose · Apr 28, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I get the feeling Anet don't like monks. The warriors just got a boost in dmg from anet and now they can penetrate armour twice as much, twice as often. Furthermore Contemplation Of Purity was given a nasty recharge time.

Warrior

Mighty Blow: increased damage to 6..35.
Staggering Blow: increased Weakness duration to 5..20 seconds.
Axe Twist: decreased adrenaline cost to 7.
Skull Crack: increased attack speed to .5 seconds; decreased Dazed duration to 10 seconds
Savage Slash: increased Energy cost to 10; increased recharge time to 20; decreased attack speed to .5
Flourish: this skill now recharges Pet Attack skills.

Monk

Signet of Judgment: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Peace and Harmony: decreased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Contemplation of Purity: increased recharge time to 10 seconds.
Unyielding Aura: now kills Enchanted characters if the caster maintaining this Enchantment dies.
Draw Conditions: fixed a bug that caused this spell to reset the durations of all the transferred Conditions.

Sundering is still a weaker option than vamp. That's not opinion -- it's mathematical fact. So, with the "buff" to sundering, if ANet encourages enough* people like Cottage to swap from vamp to sundering, they've arguably done monks a favor by making sundering 20/20.

For PvP, SoJ (outside of gimmicky SoJ spike) and PaH are trash. Unyielding was perhaps useful when exploiting the (now fixed) bug but was otherwise not worth carrying. The change to Draw Conditions is actually a benefit for monks, who were apparently enduring longer conditions than they should have.

*The vamp-to-sundering converts will have to outweigh those who previously ignored the math and used 10/10 sundering (with the latter group having its poor judgment punished less now).

twicky_kid · Apr 28, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Here is a comparesion of sundering and vamp.

1. Sundering only triggers when you use a skill and does not stack with any armor penetration skills like penetrating shot or blow.

2. The armor penetration is only calculated on the weapons base dmg. Attack skills +dmg is considered armor ignoring dmg and is not altered by armor penetration.

3. Taking a sword for example 20% armor penetration on a 60AL target is a 12 armor reduction. That only gives you a 5-12 more dmg. This dmg will only kick in when you use a skill 1/5th of the time. This dmg is also subject to protection skills and reduction.

So the vamps consistant 5 life steal that bypasses all protection and dmg reduction is still a better option.

On a hammer is the only time you will see a significant difference with sundering mods because the weapons base dmg is high.

Cottage Pie · Apr 28, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

ah, cheers twicky, i've not played for a while so my knowledge got pushed out of my pea-brain, points 1 & 2...yeah sundering is useless then, I had it in my head i'd be getting AP on my attack skills/Penetrating blow stackage, etc :P

oops.

Rhuobhe · Apr 28, 2006, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

1. Sundering only triggers when you use a skill

I'm not defending sundering, but I do believe you made a false statement there.

twicky_kid · Apr 28, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhuobhe

I'm not defending sundering, but I do believe you made a false statement there.

Has been tested by multiple people. All coming back with the same result. You can do test on on dummies if you like to. Unless they change that factor about sundering it will always be a horrible mod.

The biggest benifit of sundering is the chance of criticals. Since the chance of criticals is much higher when you use a skill + the sundering it can do some major dmg.

Falrow · Apr 28, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

When monks are too powerfull, pvp becomes boring because no one can kill.

It's better that monks are just stop gaps, and have no chance of holding a whole team up themselfs.

Maxiemonster · Apr 28, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Monk needs to be easily killed in order to make it fair, and no matter how badly ANet "nerfs" Monks, they're never going to be used less then they are now, Monks are crucial in every team, and it's never going to change.

And about the 55Hp Monk. That's something different. That's PvE, and all updates to Monks of this update barely effect PvE.

twicky_kid · Apr 28, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

When monks are too powerfull, pvp becomes boring because no one can kill.

It's better that monks are just stop gaps, and have no chance of holding a whole team up themselfs.

Monks in no way are overpowered right now. Nor were they before. If monks were overpowered then you never kill anything.

I think the they lowered a monks affectiveness to speed up games. Most battles to go to VoD between good guilds.

But anyways back to the sundering topic this thread is suppose to be about.

Corinthian · Apr 28, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Who doesn't hate fragile figures in paper armor hanging way out of the battle and continously healing the already-hard-to-kill warrior?

20/20 is a nice buff, but hardly anything that shifts the balance. I would use it on hammers and bows if I wouldn't have any use for the other upgrades. It would be much more useful if it triggered on normal blows as well.

twicky_kid · Apr 28, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian

It would be much more useful if it triggered on normal blows as well.

That still wouldn't be enough. A 1 in 5 chance it triggers adding about 5-12 dmg (sword). It gets worse with axes and daggers. That still does not match a vamp consistant hits.

Katari · Apr 28, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Where are you pulling this info from? It has been my understanding that sundering:

1. Sundering can trigger on any hit, and effects only the base damage.
2. Crits effects only base damage, skills do not effect it's chance of triggering.
3. The situations where sundering is a remotly good mod are nearly non-existant.

The AP from Strength only triggers on skill hits, perhaps that is what you are confusing it with. However, the str bonus triggers on every skill hit. A sundering mod that could only trigger on skill hits wouldn't even be worth talking about.

thrice · Apr 28, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

It's still really bad to use, but good for selling to people who don't know better.

Cottage Pie · Apr 28, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Where are you pulling this info from? It has been my understanding that sundering:

1. Sundering can trigger on any hit, and effects only the base damage.
2. Crits effects only base damage, skills do not effect it's chance of triggering.
3. The situations where sundering is a remotly good mod are nearly non-existant.

The AP from Strength only triggers on skill hits, perhaps that is what you are confusing it with. However, the str bonus triggers on every skill hit. A sundering mod that could only trigger on skill hits wouldn't even be worth talking about.

unlike the +1 skill grips, it doesn't say 'when using a skill', so you may be right...